It’s a crisis, all right.

What would you think of an organization you could turn to when you faced an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy? One that had kind counselors, who explained all of your options and helped you make the decision that was right for you? Wouldn’t something called a “crisis pregnancy center” seem like a good place to go?

Sure, if accurate, unbiased counseling were actually what you would get there. But it’s not.

From the LA Times, last month: States fund antiabortion advice.

U.S. Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles), an abortion rights supporter, last year asked undercover investigators to contact 23 crisis pregnancy centers; 20 gave misleading information, such as exaggerating the risk of abortion, he reported. In Austin, the diocese hands out a booklet — approved by the state — that suggests a link between abortion and breast cancer, though the National Cancer Institute has found no such connection.

Make no mistake, these clinics are neither few nor far between, and they’re getting your tax money. “Altogether, local antiabortion and crisis pregnancy centers have received well over $60 million in grants for abstinence education and other programs, according to a [Washington] Post review of federal records.”

Now they’re targeting Black communities with their campaign of misinformation. They are “[fr]aming their cause as the new frontier in civil rights — an effort to stop ‘black genocide’ . . . [t]he black activist group LEARN tries to rally political outrage by touring colleges with the Genocide Awareness Project — giant murals that juxtapose photos of aborted fetuses with images of slaughter in Rwanda.”

A single statistic underlies all these efforts: African Americans make up 13% of the population but account for 37% of all abortions in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

That’s a pretty scary statistic. But here’s an equally scary one: in the year 2001, 69% of all pregnancies among black women were unintended, as opposed to 40% among white women and 54% among hispanic women. [PDF]

If you feel the abortion rate is too high for any group of women or for all women, provide better education, healthcare, and birth control options to them. Maybe even fund improvements in infrastructure and promote job creation and local small businesses to support struggling families.

But don’t lie to them and deny them their right to choose.

Via Feministing
Obligatory Planned Parenthood link


36 Responses so far »

  1. 1

    Christina said,

    I just found your blog and I really like the topics you write about. Keep it up!

  2. 2

    Andree said,

    I read that this morning. A lot of their claims are a stretch.
    The one about Rwanda just horked me off.

    Basically, they are duping poor and working class women by giving them free stuff. Don’t get me started on those people.

  3. 3

    John Dias said,

    So am I to understand that you’re pitting one right against another? The right of these crisis pregnancy centers to speak of abortion from their point of view, versus the right of a woman to be encouraged to abort, and be fully informed that she has the right to get an abortion?

    Get real. Women know they have the right to get an abortion. What you’re upset about is that there is a movement that presents an alternative view. Instead of promoting abortion (or simply remaining neutral), they are trying to dissuade women from aborting. You may imply that they are propagandizing, but even if true, these women still can abort if they want to. Ever consider that some of these women are at such clinics because they’re looking for a reason NOT to abort?

    Fourteen years ago, the first Bush administration imposed regulations on its own Department of Health and Human Services (known as the Title 10 regulations) that prohibited federally-funded family planning providers from making abortion referrals. Bush didn’t want the taxpayers’ dollars to be used to refer women to get abortions, a political stance that he (an open pro-life president) had every right to believe in and act on. Feminists at the time cried foul, calling it a “gag rule” that restricted the freedom of speech of these clinics (despite the fact that the regulations merely amounted to strings on the right of these family planning clinics to receive federal larges).

    Now you are taking the same position as the first Bush administration, except in reverse. You want government-funded Crisis Pregnancy Centers to be denied the right to dissuade women from having abortions, as long as they receive public larges. Fourteen years later, and it is now the feminists calling for the imposition of the “gag rule” because, heaven forbid, women might be turning away from abortion.

    Why the rush to restrict free speech rights?

  4. 4

    uccellina said,

    I want government-funded centers to be required to give out full and accurate information, actually. Preferably with no religious bias.

    These godbags have diverted funds from organizations that provide healthcare and information to organizations that lie and deceive pregnant women.

    In 2005, Texas lawmakers redirected $25 million that was to have gone to Planned Parenthood over two years. Most went instead to primary-care health clinics (which provide contraception but not abortion). But $5 million of the money was set aside for antiabortion centers that do not provide medical care and will not refer clients to clinics that prescribe birth control.

  5. 5

    John Dias said,


    You equate abortion with health care services, as if it was medicine. It may be a medical procedure, but it cures nothing (unless, of course, you consider a baby to be a disease, in which case this notion must logically apply to all pregnant women). When money gets diverted away from organizations that would have promoted abortion (like a product for sale), you act as if desperately-needed medical care has been denied. Abortion is an elective procedure for most women; only one percent of all abortions are to save a mother’s health or life. The remainder are for non-health-related reasons.

  6. 6

    uccellina said,

    John: While I certainly do consider abortion a part of health care services, it should be noted that Planned Parenthood provides far more than abortion in the roster of its health care services.

    I’m not going to have the whole freedom-of-choice argument with you here. Abortion is a necessary, important, and legal medical procedure to which every woman has a legal and moral right, and to which every woman should have access if she requires it.

  7. 7

    John Dias said,

    Abortion is also not something that the federal government funds. You are making a political judgment, and trying to pass it off as if it were an unquestionable truth. It is not.

  8. 8

    A said,

    When the MRAs are pregnant, it would be the first realistic time to consider them worthy of a chat. Until then…well, that is better left unsaid.

    For now they can just keep self-righteously defending a government that lies about so much; it fits right in with their view of empiricism.

  9. 9

    MonkeyGurrl said,

    Ouch. Y’all make my head hurt. And you’re right, I should be outraged, but how sad is it that (much like the too much exposure to violence argument), I’ve become inured to the goverment’s complicity in inappropriate, intentional mismanagement.

    What is really sad is I’ve come to feel the same way about Planned Parenthood. {don’t hate me!!!} Back in the late 80’s, in Washington, DC, we were a part of the defense against the dark arts (a/k/a Operation Rescue) and their lot, and I really felt like I was participating and making a difference. Now, other than the occasional blogument (yes, I have just coined THAT term!) like you and John have going on, the only participation PP wants from me is my money.

  10. 10

    uccellina said,

    Monkeygurrl – I was a clinic escort too, about ten years ago (ouch). They don’t use those anymore?

  11. 11

    MonkeyGurrl said,

    🙂 Christ, did you have to remind me of how LONG AGO it was?!

    From DC, I moved to SD; after a few years (getting settled), I *did* manage to hook up with a group down there (including a dude that joined solely to meet chicks, I kid you not), but when I moved to LA, all I can seem to get are requests for the almighty buck-a-roo. Granted, the imperative is probably less out here (DC was the best place for all the Great Arguments and Perspectives), but still…

  12. 12

    nora said,

    In response to Mr. Dias… Putting aside issues of whether or not medical professionals should or should not have the right to persuade or dissuade their patients about decisions regarding their own health care, or whether “neutrality” is possible or advisable– I can see no valid reason why a medical professional (or organization framing themselves as a source of medically related information/advice) could claim a right to share inaccurate information. Meanwhile, Planned Parenthood gets demon-ized and I want to ask those who applaud if they are volunteering themselves to become the new largest provider of Pap Smears for low-income women.

    Most people I know believe what they have believed about abortion from the time they heard the word, but I think I can fairly claim to be in the category of those who have truly struggled to reconcile conflicting feelings about the issue at large. Uccellina should in fact be able to vouch for me as being one of the more Pro-Life people in our high school/college age cirlcles– and I honestly might still “categorize” myself that way today if it weren’t for this sort of politicized nonsense on the part of people at the forefront of the movement. I did not come easily to think that these sorts of organizations are part of a larger war on women and the poor– but their spokespersons have driven me away. My fantasy has always been that one day I will turn on the news and the President of NOW and the head of Operation Rescue announce that they are marching on Washington together in support of improved foster care, quality affordable childcare, and support/incentives for businesses who develop more family-friendly policies for their employees. But its easier to act like each other is evil incarnate and pretend an argument with no end is a relevant debate than to actually make a difference.

  13. 13

    Celeste said,

    John Dias, it is not up to you to decide on the correctness, validity, or purpose of any given medical procedure that another person is having.

    I hope the word will get out that a “crisis pregnancy center” is just MEANT to mislead women into keeping the pregnancy going as if abortion was not an option. Then women would stop going there and there would be no financial incentive to run them.

    The real crisis is when somebody like you decides they need to interfere in another person’s life. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy has enough problems without running into the likes of you.

  14. 14

    Lisa said,

    Good lord. John is being made out as some sort of monster. Interesting the one against killing another life form is painted as uncaring and interfering. Yeah, some monster. Let’s all make up John masks for next Halloween.

    When new mothers are dealing with problems, weighed down by exhaustion or stressed over money we would NEVER say, but let us not interfere with how they treat their children because they’ve got enough to deal with without us sticking our noses in where they don’t belong. Let’s not bother them with information on how their decisions and actions are going to effect another life. Let’s not share with them their personal risks and consequences of their actions. Let’s not waste their time letting them hear alternative solutions to neglecting or harming their children. Let us not be insensitive by suggesting a day may come where they are older and wiser and regret their current actions, which are irreversible. Adding to the problems of an expectant mother by giving her information and explaining consequences is no different to me than the permission we give ourselves as a society, and necessarily so, to stick our noses into the health and well being of children out of the womb.

    The MRA comment was silly. I think men have just as much right to talk about abortion and chime in. Correction, SHOULD have as much right. They currently don’t in a legal sense and that makes the MRA necessary. It’s their children too. Women can say “we are the ones who have to incubate the baby for 9 months”. How handy for them to forget men in this country are more often held responsible for the financial well being of children for the first 18 YEARS of their lives. If a man demanded a woman abort so he wouldn’t have to deal with the weight of supporting a child for 18 YEARS…women would come unglued! How is not wanting to commit our bodies to 9 months of incubation any more valid? And don’t say it’s because we are the ones subjected to harm by carrying the child. That is the least likely reason for a woman to seek an abortion and you know it. Be fair ladies. We want men to be involved with their kids and responsible for their needs, but expect them to be devoid of feelings should we choose to abort fetuses. You can’t have it both ways. Honestly, it would be down right fascinating to me to see how women would react if men were the ones birthing babies and deciding to abort our offspring without women’s opinions counting for beans.

    I’m a mom and I have a 5 week old baby in my belly. That means the baby has been growing for 3 short weeks. You know what, it’s heart is going to start beating this week. It’s heart! It’s little hand and feet buds will begin to sprout in another week or two. When I think of abortions going down from this early stage up until terminated fetuses are fully formed babies, my heart breaks a bit. I think it is important that our country not provide abortions absent of the truth. Yes there are a few out there who are inserting non-truths in an attempt to scare and confuse. Propoganda happens on both sides. The misinformation that trickles in should not be used as a hallpass to sterilize the entire process of information and details. We can find inaccurate information in all aspects of our society. Get real. We all have to do the best we can and navigate around it all.

    Women should have to say to themselves, I know there is a beating heart in there…I know there are hands and feet…I know the baby is hiccuping…and I’m comfortable terminating it. Allowing her to move forward with an abortion while only thinking of it as a cell or a non-life form (I mean, many refuse to state my baby is a life) and only allowing her to concentrate on how this pregnancy may cause her embarrassment, may force her to rethink her career plans, may commit her to a guy she’s no longer interested in, may cause her financial strain, may cause her discomfort while carrying, may change the appearance of her body…well, it’s a disserve to the woman and to the baby she is choosing to deny life to. As John said, few are chosing abortion as an alternative to dying during pregnancy or delivery.

    The amazing thing to me is that abortion is such a deep debate on paper. So many arguments and thoughts can be laid out. In real life, it’s pretty basic and you can’t escape the reality of it all. There is blood, there is tissue, there are vaccuums, there are biohazard bags, there are emotional scars, there are physical consequences, etc. Balance that against the relief one might feel over no one knowing you were pregnant, not having your career put on hold, not having additional financial strain…well, the scales seem far from even to me.

  15. 15

    A said,

    I’m the one who made the MRA comment and am a wife and mother myself. Your “facts” are not correct. It was not silly: this is just one more part of the oppression I no longer accept. That you don’t agree is fine. That you give your opinion as fact is…silly and totally unacceptable. That you don’t even recognize the existence or oppression of white male privilege is a tragedy.

    Re the so-called “right to life” argument you unsuccessfully make: I’m not going to have that conversation with you. We don’t agree – and evidently we will not. I see no point in supplying facts when your measure of sound methodology is “Well, I think…”

  16. 16

    Lisa said,

    A, the American woman is FAR from oppressed. Thumb through a few history books and study other cultures. You’ll see true oppression. I imagine the women and religious groups in those stories would give anything to have it as bad as you do. Quite honestly, by being able to “no longer accept” a part of oppression, it makes it pretty tough to argue one is oppressed. The oppressed most often are not in a position to accept or not accept their plight. If you are still feeling oppressed by the white man, and happen to be married to one, go ahead and divorce him. You’ll feel pretty powerful then. He will be a stone under your shoe.

    Yes, your MRA remark was silly and the argument of “you can’t have a baby so it doesn’t apply to you” is sad and overused. If that’s going to be our rule, than infertile women shouldn’t have a say either. That statement is just as silly and it was intentional. It’s not a stretch at all to say men are marginalized when it comes to the rights of their children.

    You may not feel my argument was successful. That is your opinion to have. It’s of no consequence to me. There are others who will read my words, whether they comment here or not, and feel I’m not off the beaten path.

    To be honest A, my use of “well I think” makes me a pretty honest person. Those who walk through life with “well I know” attitudes often miss the boat. I am willing to accept my entire view of this world and its happenings is an opinion. I’m not blessed with being all knowing and I’m not foolish enough to try to tie myself to what is fact and what is fiction. Supposed facts in any issue are manipulated on both sides of the equation. You and I could both Google to our hearts content and post tons of stats, reports and studies here. There is always a report out there to be found that supports an answer we want to hear. The thing is, I don’t need a report or study or statistic to speak for me. I can sit back and look at a situation and form a conclusion on my own. The important thing to do is to navigate the waters of life as best as possible while staying close to a moral and just compass. I’m not talking about religion here. I’m talking about listening to my basic instinct of what is right and what is wrong. At least that’s what is important to me.

  17. 17

    uccellina said,

    Lisa – “Adding to the problems of an expectant mother by giving her information and explaining consequences is no different to me than . . . to stick our noses into the health and well being of children out of the womb.”

    If Crisis Pregnancy Centers were actually “giving information and explaining consequences,” that would be one thing. But they’re not. They’re lying to and frightening women in order to impose their religious views on others. If you want an organization that gives information and explains consequences, try Planned Parenthood.

    “I don’t need a report or study or statistic to speak for me. I can sit back and look at a situation and form a conclusion on my own.”

    And that, Lisa, pretty much sums it up. You have made your decision about what is right for you, and are willing to declare it right for all women, regardless of science or circumstance.

    “The important thing to do is to navigate the waters of life as best as possible while staying close to a moral and just compass.”

    Here we agree. And my moral and just compass says that lying to and deceiving pregnant women in order to deny them their right to reproductive freedom is wrong.

  18. 18

    Lisa said,

    Uccellina, I’m really not a “my way is right for everyone” kind of person. If I were imposing my beliefs on others, I would be much more aggressive to ban abortion. I’m only really outspoken about partial birth abortions. How women can even justify them without a medical danger to the mother is beyond me. It’s way over the line of reasonable. Aside from that, I’ve never stood in protest. I don’t vote for politicians strictly on the basis of their position on abortion, etc. Abortion is not right for me. I don’t take it upon myself to make the decision for others. I do think when they make the decision, they should be looking at it as terminating a life. If you follow science reports or studies that imply it’s not a life, I’m sorry to report they are grossly incorrect. What is it, pray tell? A rock? We even view single celled organisms in the bottom of a pond as a life form, but we won’t classify our unborn children that way. That’s not science, Uccellina. That’s a convenient distortion of the truth. I’d much rather sit back an make my own assumptions based on what clearly makes sense versus following the so called truths of scientific reports. I’m not trying to bury my head in the sand to keep my position. I’m simply not going to let a company, industry, lobbiest or organization behind a study convince me a square is a circle. If it has a heart and a circulatory system it’s a life. Any scientific report that says otherwise is bunk.

    My message is that anyone who gives much weight to scientific studies as the basis for their opinion on things is often following information that is incomplete and pathetically manipulated on both sides. Do you disagree we could Google ourselves into a pile of reports and studies supporting both sides? Where is the right/wrong or fact/fiction in all of that. In the end, we have to rely on common sense. I’m not just talking about abortion here. You can find studies that support both positions in any belief or argument. Science has become a huge money making industry and it relies on an influx of positions to keep people employed and companies making money. It’s less about science and more about marketing campaigns with slanted research. Very rarely are scientists unbaised seekers of the truth anymore. They are funded by specific groups to find a specific answer. Again, this is often true of both sides of any issue.

    And by the way, I personally believe it is lying to and deceiving pregnant women to allow them to move forward with an abortion believing they aren’t killing anything. Believing that the baby in their womb is a non-life-form is a tragic misrepresentation of fact. They will still have their ‘reproductive freedom’. With women making up a majority of registered voters, the right to choose isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Count on it.

    A woman I know had 3 abortions in her early twenties. As a result she had a terrible time conceiving. She lied to her husband and told him it was from endometriosis. She lived in fear he would find out the real reason she was having so much trouble. She kept having ectopic pregnancies. Once her kids were born (she is a mother of 2) she became haunted over the thoughts of the children she terminated. She often has thoughts of how old they’d be now and wonders what they would look like…would they be boys or girls, etc? She fully admits at the time she didn’t give any thought to what she was actually doing. She was specifically thinking of why it would be better if she weren’t pregnant, not about the fact she was deciding not to bring those lives into the world. Her decisions are irreversible. Now that time has gone by and she is more removed from the drama of those early days of discovering she was pregnant, she can see solutions she didn’t see at the time. The freedom she had in her 20’s has not turned into a mental prison of sorts. Is that true for everyone. Probably not. She’s not alone, however. Of that I’m sure.

    I’m not supporting in the least people telling women they’ll get breast cancer from having an abortion. I also don’t support people telling women they’ll go to Hell. I do think it more than fair for them to hear they may have difficulting conceiving in the future, they may have feelings of regret as time goes by, they are indeed terminating a life, etc.

  19. 19

    uccellina said,


    You say your friend had trouble conceiving, but then say she kept having ectopic pregnancies. If she “kept having” ectopic pregnancies, then her difficulty was not in conceiving. How did your friend know that her troubles had anything to do with her earlier abortions? If those abortions were safe and uncomplicated, there’s no reason to suspect a connection. This is a good example of the misinformation propagated by Crisis Pregnancy Centers and other anti-choice organizations.

    Here is a link to Planned Parenthood’s list of Risks and Side Effects from Abortion.

    “I’d much rather sit back an make my own assumptions based on what clearly makes sense versus following the so called truths of scientific reports.”

    Clearly, the earth is flat, because I cannot see otherwise from my window. Clearly, god exists, because the universe is far too complex to have happened randomly. Clearly, there is no god, or else s/he would not allow cruelty and atrocity to take place. Clearly, “life” does not equal “personhood,” or else we would mourn every slaughtered cow as we would a child. Clearly, we should spend less time attempting to prevent abortion and more time fighting for the rights of children who have already been born.

    What clearly makes sense to you may make no sense at all to someone else.

  20. 20

    A said,


    Your utter lack of concern with fact makes this exchange useless. It is not a conversation: you need to have your own way, based on your assumption that your opinion(s) carry more worth than facts. And, sorry if this sounds personal but: you do not read well, judging by your inability to understand what I said about oppression. Re your reference to my lack of knowledge: I’m fairly confident that my 4.0 and advanced degree in the area say otherwise. My real failure lies in my lack of patience to convince people like you that empirical study and rigorous thought process are necessary facets of the analysis required to form a worthwhile opinion.

    Have a nice life. Since you clearly can afford it and do not value growth, for yourself or others, your perception of “nice” should not be hard to achieve.

    BTW, U.: well said, as usual.

  21. 21

    Lisa said,

    You guys are great at deflecting from the true point by splitting hairs. Ectopic pregnancies are indeed more common in women who have had multiple abortions. My friend and her PHYSICIAN came to the conclusion the abortions she had were likely contributing to the problem. Before you get your conspiracy theories going, her doctor was a woman. True…she technically conceived…the baby never made it to her womb and was never going to grow past a few weeks. Boy you are right to call me out on my utter disregard for the truth and my twisting of information. That’s a big glaring mismatch there. (Of course, I think it pales in comparison to saying something with a beating heart isn’t a life…I mean, that’s REALLY a stretch.) Shame on me for suggesting she couldn’t get pregnant at all when she really could for a couple of weeks. Gosh, am I one of those nasty radicals who slobbers lies or what? So you’re right, women don’t have to fear not being able to conceive. It’s just the part about having a baby take root in her womb she needs to worry over. Whew, what a relief. She can be a mommy afterall. Oh shucks, I forgot it’s not really a live baby at that point though. Hmmmm, can we just pretend she’s a mommy so her feelings don’t get hurt. At least it won’t feel any pain when it dies. Actually, we probably shouldn’t say dies either. The hair splitters amongst you are sure to point out it didn’t really die b/c it wasn’t really alive to begin with.

    A, a 4.0 may point to intelligence. You were able to provide the answers your instructors wanted for the questions they asked you. Bravo. When they told you a square was a circle, you were bright enough to say ‘okay’ and remember it for the future. GPAs and degrees don’t point to wisdom. They are a measure of your ability to retain and understand whatever pitch your institution sees fit to sell to you. I am degreed as well. I’m not concerned that your 4.0 beats out my 3.5. If you walked away from a college with a perfect GPA and the belief something with a beating heart isn’t alive, you may want to ask for your money back.

    I will give you credit, your fancy degrees did teach you how to creatively spin the basic truths of life. They’ve also given you lots of interesting ways to argue women are wronged and oppressed. Yep, my GPA is likely lower than some here. I don’t have any advanced degrees to my name. If you wanted to, you could probably split hairs until you found a way to say I am lying when I state I breathe and go to the bathroom everyday. I’m still smart or wise enough to know I really do breathe and pee everyday, no matter how creatively you could argue otherwise.

  22. 22

    uccellina said,


    I don’t think it’s splitting hairs to note the difference between conceiving and carrying a child to term. It’s a very pertinent difference in the discussion we are having.

    As I noted previously, if your friend’s three abortions were uncomplicated, there’s no reason to suspect a connection. If, however, they were complicated, and there was scarring around the fallopian tubes, that might be an issue. Risk factors for ectopic pregnancy include smoking, advanced maternal age, and tubal damage of any origin. I haven’t spoken with your friend or her doctor (and no, it really doesn’t matter to me whether her doctor was female or not), so I wouldn’t presume to speak for her case.

    I also know a woman who’s had three abortions, and subsequently had no trouble conceiving or carrying to term her two (adorable!) children. There’s a range of experiences out there. That’s one reason we have scientific data – to keep us from relying on anecdote to make policy decisions.

  23. 23

    nora said,

    I used to think that the “right to choose wasn’t going anywhere anytime soon” as Lisa does. Too much recent egislation throughout the country has made me seriously question that notion.

  24. 24

    Kim Geller said,

    I vote pro-choice because, as someone who is currently 30 weeks pregnant, I am quite certain that no one should ever be forced to do this.

    Forced to carry a unborn child??
    Memo to women: You aren’t forced to have unprotected sex or told to forget to take your birth control pills?
    You did the deed(having sex) the consequence is pregnancy!!
    Women need to understand the consequences to their actions.
    To abort your innocent unborn child for the mistake you made is unjustly.
    I’m a woman and I’m ashamed that my gender has to feel that they need the choice to cut up their bodies and to kill their offspring(the Latin name for fetus) to feel like they have rights and to be equal.

  25. 25

    Annika said,

    Aww, do you think that’s the same pro-lifer who told me, when I was pregnant, that I obviously did not appreciate the miracle of life because I am pro-choice? What a load of horse shit.

  26. 26

    Annika said,

    P.S. What the heck post is that quote from? Not this one.

  27. 27

    John Dias said,

    Annika wrote:

    “Aww, do you think that’s the same pro-lifer who told me, when I was pregnant, that I obviously did not appreciate the miracle of life because I am pro-choice? What a load of horse shit.”

    Whether YOU appreciate the miracle of life or not is irrelevant, Ms. Narcissist. Pro-lifers want to restrict abortion specifically because they believe that the baby growing in that womb has intrinsic value. You apparently think that, somehow, bestowing your appreciation mystically conveys value on the fetus — and (conversely) withholding your appreciation for the fetus makes it less valuable, worthy of aborting.

    To a pro-lifer, it’s not all about you.

  28. 28

    uccellina said,

    Yo John, back the hell off with the name calling. You happen to be talking to one of the kindest, least narcissistic people I know. And Annika was saying (pardon me for speaking for you, Annika) that a pro-lifer had told her that she must be unable to appreciate the miracle of life; she wasn’t saying anything about the value her appreciation might or might not bestow upon a fetus. I know you like to argue, but don’t set up strawmen here.

  29. 29

    uccellina said,

    Also, isn’t this post a billion years (or eighteen months) old? What are we all doing back here? I must not be feeding your need for drama enough on the front page. Will attempt to rectify that.

  30. 30

    John Dias said,

    It’s called RSS, baby!

  31. 31

    Annika said,

    I will believe that pro-lifers value unborn humans the moment they begin lobbying for better foster care, better day care, better health care, and generally better LIVES for those babies once they are born. Until then, I will continue to be pro-choice, because I value the lives of people who already exist.

    I don’t know how Kim Gellar got to this post but I followed the recent comments to her remarks. I should have kept quiet but my son wasn’t sleeping well so I was up past my betime. Poor judgment.

  32. 32

    John Dias said,

    Annika wrote:

    “…because I value the lives of people who already exist.”

    How convenient for you… Claim that they don’t exist, and POOF! They don’t exist! How many people feel the same way about human beings who suffer from lack of the services you listed? Out of sight, out of mind, they don’t exist.


  33. 33

    Annika said,

    John, you are making leaps that have absolutely nothing to do with what I’ve said or what I believe. Therefore I cannot and will not speak to you about this any further.

  34. 34

    uccellina said,

    John – what did I just say about name calling? You are thisclose to being banned.

  35. 35

    John Dias said,

    Uccellina wrote:

    “John – what did I just say about name calling? You are this close to being banned.”

    Sorry. No more name calling, then.

  36. 36

    Erica said,

    just wanted to tell you that you disgust me… 😀 I’m sure you’re one of those crazy liberals who support abortion and are against the death penalty.. yes ppl should be forced to go through it although it’s your body.. abortion is murder and you should take responsiblity for your actions.. most people who have abortions are just selfish

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